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	<title>Comments on: Ayahuasca Mainstreamed</title>
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	<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/</link>
	<description>A Guide to Mestizo Shamanism in the Upper Amazon</description>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-5125</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 06:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-5125</guid>
		<description>Good points, Steve.

I often run into the new age version of ayahuasca usage.  People who are only looking for a nice, gentle and sweet experience.  When people are afraid of confronting their inner shadow and demons, they will push aside the real work and lose the benefit of the true healing potential of la Madre - or of any real deep healing work for that matter.  The root of this is fear.  I&#039;ve seen real damage come from this attitude, and it&#039;s a sad commentary on those for whom avoidance is a mode of being - often people who go from seminar to seminar or hopping from shaman to shaman, seeking the latest greatest transformational high; but always just scratching the surface.   Really though, it&#039;s impossible to repress the shadow for long.  Eventually it will come up and need to be dealt with.  

But how will it be dealt with for those who are only seeking happiness at the expense of the real healing work that the plants offer? 

Not well, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Steve.</p>
<p>I often run into the new age version of ayahuasca usage.  People who are only looking for a nice, gentle and sweet experience.  When people are afraid of confronting their inner shadow and demons, they will push aside the real work and lose the benefit of the true healing potential of la Madre &#8211; or of any real deep healing work for that matter.  The root of this is fear.  I&#8217;ve seen real damage come from this attitude, and it&#8217;s a sad commentary on those for whom avoidance is a mode of being &#8211; often people who go from seminar to seminar or hopping from shaman to shaman, seeking the latest greatest transformational high; but always just scratching the surface.   Really though, it&#8217;s impossible to repress the shadow for long.  Eventually it will come up and need to be dealt with.  </p>
<p>But how will it be dealt with for those who are only seeking happiness at the expense of the real healing work that the plants offer? </p>
<p>Not well, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Beyer</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-5118</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Beyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-5118</guid>
		<description>I am delighted that you had a sweet, beautiful, and powerful experience. I wish you all blessings on your path, and many more such experiences. I would like to ask you a few questions, if that is all right.

-- Whom did you drink with in the Amazon?
-- Is having sweet, beautiful, and powerful experiences the purpose of ayahuasca?
-- If that is the case, in what way does drinking ayahuasca differ from, say, masturbating?
-- Since you have been welcomed into Amazonian communities, I assume you are currently supporting the struggles of the indigenous and mestizo communities whose medicine has been so good to you. What in particular are you doing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am delighted that you had a sweet, beautiful, and powerful experience. I wish you all blessings on your path, and many more such experiences. I would like to ask you a few questions, if that is all right.</p>
<p>&#8211; Whom did you drink with in the Amazon?<br />
&#8211; Is having sweet, beautiful, and powerful experiences the purpose of ayahuasca?<br />
&#8211; If that is the case, in what way does drinking ayahuasca differ from, say, masturbating?<br />
&#8211; Since you have been welcomed into Amazonian communities, I assume you are currently supporting the struggles of the indigenous and mestizo communities whose medicine has been so good to you. What in particular are you doing?</p>
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		<title>By: Ma</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-5005</link>
		<dc:creator>Ma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 15:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-5005</guid>
		<description>Had an AMAZING round of ceremonies with Francis ( ie Lobo Siete Truenos ) in Los Angeles....

Nothing but deep Gratitude for him....

I have experienced many ceremonies prior...including ceremonies in the Amazon along with the Dieta experience.....

However I must say the ceremony with Lobo Siete Truenos was the sweetest, most Beautiful....most Powerful experience....

I was Pleasantly surprised.....i had heard he created a very strict container but I had no idea how Pure an experience I was about to be Witness to...

I&#039;m so Grateful....

and I&#039;d like to advise those who commented ..... please be Aware of the statements you choose to make ... they leave a mark ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Had an AMAZING round of ceremonies with Francis ( ie Lobo Siete Truenos ) in Los Angeles&#8230;.</p>
<p>Nothing but deep Gratitude for him&#8230;.</p>
<p>I have experienced many ceremonies prior&#8230;including ceremonies in the Amazon along with the Dieta experience&#8230;..</p>
<p>However I must say the ceremony with Lobo Siete Truenos was the sweetest, most Beautiful&#8230;.most Powerful experience&#8230;.</p>
<p>I was Pleasantly surprised&#8230;..i had heard he created a very strict container but I had no idea how Pure an experience I was about to be Witness to&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m so Grateful&#8230;.</p>
<p>and I&#8217;d like to advise those who commented &#8230;.. please be Aware of the statements you choose to make &#8230; they leave a mark &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-4635</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Aug 2010 06:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-4635</guid>
		<description>I think the real concern is, upon reexamining things, is maybe the loss of the Amazon itself and the danger of losing that to a filtered version of what Shamanism is as well. Then again, who am I to say what the future is or holds or should be?  As the old Zen story says, &quot;it&#039;s all good&quot;. I apologize if it came across as personal, it wasn&#039;t meant to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the real concern is, upon reexamining things, is maybe the loss of the Amazon itself and the danger of losing that to a filtered version of what Shamanism is as well. Then again, who am I to say what the future is or holds or should be?  As the old Zen story says, &#8220;it&#8217;s all good&#8221;. I apologize if it came across as personal, it wasn&#8217;t meant to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Beyer</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-4601</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Beyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-4601</guid>
		<description>I am always happy for a vigorous discussion. I did edit the above post slightly to remove a few words I considered to be an attack on a person rather than an argument about ideas. The meaning, I believe, remains unaltered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am always happy for a vigorous discussion. I did edit the above post slightly to remove a few words I considered to be an attack on a person rather than an argument about ideas. The meaning, I believe, remains unaltered.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-4600</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 00:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-4600</guid>
		<description>Interesting. Most people I have met at ceremonies in North America have something wrong with them physically or otherwise. Does not being separated from source count as being sick? As much as I think Lobos is not necessarily a genuinely trained Shaman I don&#039;t care much for Mr. Beyers classification of what shamanistic practices are  and are not.  Ayahuasca is just a tool; that&#039;s it. I have found that having a skilled Ayahuascero is indeed the best way to go and that perhaps people who draw certain types of these healers to them have something to learn; perhaps that the universe is a magical AND dangerous place.  I appreciate the culture concerns but ultimately who is better off?  Who does Mr. Beyer want to benefit? Perhaps make the poor curanderos who have access to an infinite universe replicas of the white gringos he so often criticizes? Do they need a nice car and fancy home and a pension plan? His whole approach reeks of a lack of bigger picture. Getting lost in the Mona Lisa&#039;s smile really misses the point of what can be achieved with Ayahuasca. It all depends on how you look at it I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. Most people I have met at ceremonies in North America have something wrong with them physically or otherwise. Does not being separated from source count as being sick? As much as I think Lobos is not necessarily a genuinely trained Shaman I don&#8217;t care much for Mr. Beyers classification of what shamanistic practices are  and are not.  Ayahuasca is just a tool; that&#8217;s it. I have found that having a skilled Ayahuascero is indeed the best way to go and that perhaps people who draw certain types of these healers to them have something to learn; perhaps that the universe is a magical AND dangerous place.  I appreciate the culture concerns but ultimately who is better off?  Who does Mr. Beyer want to benefit? Perhaps make the poor curanderos who have access to an infinite universe replicas of the white gringos he so often criticizes? Do they need a nice car and fancy home and a pension plan? His whole approach reeks of a lack of bigger picture. Getting lost in the Mona Lisa&#8217;s smile really misses the point of what can be achieved with Ayahuasca. It all depends on how you look at it I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: Crypsis</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-2497</link>
		<dc:creator>Crypsis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-2497</guid>
		<description>Interesting rebuttal, Steve. I read the Times piece as well and had much the same reaction; being connected to the West Coast medicine world (indirectly), I&#039;d heard about Truenos; the consensus was that he may be skilled at running ceremony, but that it&#039;s difficult to ascertain how truthful he is. 

I also agree with what you&#039;re saying about people not contributing to the culture from which they&#039;re borrowing this healing. However, having worked with several mestizo curanderos from Peru, I am glad that my community is no longer doing business with them. We&#039;ve had one difficult experience after another. In some cases the curanderos saw us as ignorant rich gringos. (Two out of three are true; we&#039;re not rich, though to a Peruvian living in the jungle, I suppose we seem so). There were many cultural misunderstandings about proper protocol. These curanderos, being mostly men, also made no effort to hide their attraction to women and in some cases openly made passes at them, playing up their almost guru-like status to woo impressionable young women. 

Fortunately, we live in a place where the plants grow well, and now all of our medicine is local. We no longer invite curanderos to facilitate, and we don&#039;t have to deal with all the of the hassles (not the least of which involve visas, travel, housing, food, etc.--some of these guys come with what, to me, are unreasonably high expectations about how they ought to be treated). The medicine is working with us in a new context, forming new relationships. I believe that the medicine choreographed its immigration to our home, and now it&#039;s developing into something different, something more connected to this place. It&#039;s an interesting process to watch, and of course it&#039;s just my interpretation. Who the heck knows what&#039;s really going on?

I will always honor the teachers and shamans and healers who brought this medicine into my life and community. And I would love to visit the Amazon someday and pay my due respects to the people and traditions there. But I am also happy that it&#039;s evolving with us, and that we don&#039;t need to rely on practitioners from thousands of miles (and another culture) away from. It may be that we lose something in translation; the curanderos have a millennium (or more) of practice, tradition and spirit allies behind them. But who can say what&#039;s yet to be gained?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting rebuttal, Steve. I read the Times piece as well and had much the same reaction; being connected to the West Coast medicine world (indirectly), I&#8217;d heard about Truenos; the consensus was that he may be skilled at running ceremony, but that it&#8217;s difficult to ascertain how truthful he is. </p>
<p>I also agree with what you&#8217;re saying about people not contributing to the culture from which they&#8217;re borrowing this healing. However, having worked with several mestizo curanderos from Peru, I am glad that my community is no longer doing business with them. We&#8217;ve had one difficult experience after another. In some cases the curanderos saw us as ignorant rich gringos. (Two out of three are true; we&#8217;re not rich, though to a Peruvian living in the jungle, I suppose we seem so). There were many cultural misunderstandings about proper protocol. These curanderos, being mostly men, also made no effort to hide their attraction to women and in some cases openly made passes at them, playing up their almost guru-like status to woo impressionable young women. </p>
<p>Fortunately, we live in a place where the plants grow well, and now all of our medicine is local. We no longer invite curanderos to facilitate, and we don&#8217;t have to deal with all the of the hassles (not the least of which involve visas, travel, housing, food, etc.&#8211;some of these guys come with what, to me, are unreasonably high expectations about how they ought to be treated). The medicine is working with us in a new context, forming new relationships. I believe that the medicine choreographed its immigration to our home, and now it&#8217;s developing into something different, something more connected to this place. It&#8217;s an interesting process to watch, and of course it&#8217;s just my interpretation. Who the heck knows what&#8217;s really going on?</p>
<p>I will always honor the teachers and shamans and healers who brought this medicine into my life and community. And I would love to visit the Amazon someday and pay my due respects to the people and traditions there. But I am also happy that it&#8217;s evolving with us, and that we don&#8217;t need to rely on practitioners from thousands of miles (and another culture) away from. It may be that we lose something in translation; the curanderos have a millennium (or more) of practice, tradition and spirit allies behind them. But who can say what&#8217;s yet to be gained?</p>
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		<title>By: Rider</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-2279</link>
		<dc:creator>Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-2279</guid>
		<description>Actually, that should read &quot;wishing Lobos and his clients well&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, that should read &#8220;wishing Lobos and his clients well&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rider</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-2278</link>
		<dc:creator>Rider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 06:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-2278</guid>
		<description>Wow, quite the flare up there.
Let these men&#039;s words speak for themselves. Beyers ends his article by wishing Lobos and his clients --a tongue in cheek well wishing, but well-wishing nonetheless. Lobos&#039; retort is nothing short of hostile. Beware of flying spiders (now guess what I&#039;m going to dream about tonight. Great.)

Little Lightening Bolt (there you are again) I have to say, I have one friend who suffers from chronic severe pain, who claims (and I believe him) that the only thing he&#039;s found that helps is ayahuasca. Similarly, I&#039;ve a girlfriend diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, and she has really struggled--she&#039;s found a pharmaceutical that helps, but before that the only answer was ceremony, and it remains the more powerful cure (though not permanent as some maintain, at least not as we&#039;ve found). As for myself, I deal with my moderate but prolonged depression without synthetic chemicals, and I do okay but not great. But a regular practice with la medicina--I can&#039;t tell you the difference that it makes. Unfortunately I don&#039;t have regular access, so good blogs like this keep me moving in the right direction. Thanks for the good work Steve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, quite the flare up there.<br />
Let these men&#8217;s words speak for themselves. Beyers ends his article by wishing Lobos and his clients &#8211;a tongue in cheek well wishing, but well-wishing nonetheless. Lobos&#8217; retort is nothing short of hostile. Beware of flying spiders (now guess what I&#8217;m going to dream about tonight. Great.)</p>
<p>Little Lightening Bolt (there you are again) I have to say, I have one friend who suffers from chronic severe pain, who claims (and I believe him) that the only thing he&#8217;s found that helps is ayahuasca. Similarly, I&#8217;ve a girlfriend diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, and she has really struggled&#8211;she&#8217;s found a pharmaceutical that helps, but before that the only answer was ceremony, and it remains the more powerful cure (though not permanent as some maintain, at least not as we&#8217;ve found). As for myself, I deal with my moderate but prolonged depression without synthetic chemicals, and I do okay but not great. But a regular practice with la medicina&#8211;I can&#8217;t tell you the difference that it makes. Unfortunately I don&#8217;t have regular access, so good blogs like this keep me moving in the right direction. Thanks for the good work Steve.</p>
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		<title>By: osman oktay</title>
		<link>http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/comment-page-1/#comment-1001</link>
		<dc:creator>osman oktay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/ayahuasca-mainstreamed/#comment-1001</guid>
		<description>i am in bolivia... i want to meet shamans and do the ayahuasca ceremony...
   if you know where they are, please let me know...

    big love

osman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am in bolivia&#8230; i want to meet shamans and do the ayahuasca ceremony&#8230;<br />
   if you know where they are, please let me know&#8230;</p>
<p>    big love</p>
<p>osman</p>
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