Comments on: The Tragedy of Maria Sabina http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/ A Guide to Mestizo Shamanism in the Upper Amazon Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:33:35 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Steve Beyer http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/comment-page-1/#comment-414 Steve Beyer Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:13:00 +0000 http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/the-tragedy-of-maria-sabina/#comment-414 I'm not sure that I would say you were <em>punished</em>. I would guess that you were <em>warned</em>. :-) But it seems to me that it is the warning of a loving grandmother, looking out for you. I’m not sure that I would say you were punished. I would guess that you were warned. :-) But it seems to me that it is the warning of a loving grandmother, looking out for you.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/comment-page-1/#comment-410 Anonymous Fri, 03 Apr 2009 20:11:00 +0000 http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/the-tragedy-of-maria-sabina/#comment-410 A thought I've recently had is that the plants/mushrooms have their own intelligence. While this is probably old news to a lot of people who write here, its a new idea to me. I've had little expience with LSD/plants/shrooms, but tried peyote tea last July. I don't think my intentions for taking it were clear/honest, and in retrospect I think the cacuts knew that. It scared the living hell out of me to such a degree that I've never felt before. Sort of like astounding me and then booting me out. I too feel like a lot of these westerners who don't know exactly what ails them or much about the traditional context, and I think I was punished for it to a degree in the experience. A thought I’ve recently had is that the plants/mushrooms have their own intelligence. While this is probably old news to a lot of people who write here, its a new idea to me. I’ve had little expience with LSD/plants/shrooms, but tried peyote tea last July. I don’t think my intentions for taking it were clear/honest, and in retrospect I think the cacuts knew that. It scared the living hell out of me to such a degree that I’ve never felt before. Sort of like astounding me and then booting me out. I too feel like a lot of these westerners who don’t know exactly what ails them or much about the traditional context, and I think I was punished for it to a degree in the experience.

]]> By: Steve Beyer http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/comment-page-1/#comment-408 Steve Beyer Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:16:00 +0000 http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/the-tragedy-of-maria-sabina/#comment-408 Thank you all for your most interesting comments. I wonder whether we have learned anything. I wonder whether the influx of foreigners into the Upper Amazon seeking <em>ayahuasca</em> healing isn't just a repetition of history. [sigh] I guess we'll find out. Thank you all for your most interesting comments. I wonder whether we have learned anything. I wonder whether the influx of foreigners into the Upper Amazon seeking ayahuasca healing isn’t just a repetition of history. [sigh] I guess we’ll find out.

]]> By: Tessa http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/comment-page-1/#comment-406 Tessa Thu, 02 Apr 2009 03:11:00 +0000 http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/the-tragedy-of-maria-sabina/#comment-406 I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.<br/><br/><br/>Ruth<br/><br/><a HREF="http://besttoddler.com" REL="nofollow">http://besttoddler.com</a> I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don’t know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.

Ruth

http://besttoddler.com

]]> By: MarkostheGnostic http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/comment-page-1/#comment-141 MarkostheGnostic Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:38:00 +0000 http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/the-tragedy-of-maria-sabina/#comment-141 Searching for a pic of Maria Sabina, I happened upon your article and your blog. Today, btw, I received in the mail a fine copy of the May 13, 1957 LIFE Magazine, the mag which introduced Maria to the world, and I began a little leisurely research. Happy to discover your blog. I just began to write my own recently: www.markosthegnostic.org. +Peace be with you+ Searching for a pic of Maria Sabina, I happened upon your article and your blog. Today, btw, I received in the mail a fine copy of the May 13, 1957 LIFE Magazine, the mag which introduced Maria to the world, and I began a little leisurely research. Happy to discover your blog. I just began to write my own recently: http://www.markosthegnostic.org. +Peace be with you+

]]> By: amarilla http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/comment-page-1/#comment-99 amarilla Sun, 06 Apr 2008 16:23:00 +0000 http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/the-tragedy-of-maria-sabina/#comment-99 "forgive them for they know not what they do." really. they don't. they didn't.<br/><br/>understanding is much more precious than we suppose.<br/><br/>and courage, even more rare. we do tremendous damage without realizing it. all of us. but impermanence, disappointment and loss are some of our most important teachers. especially now. “forgive them for they know not what they do.” really. they don’t. they didn’t.

understanding is much more precious than we suppose.

and courage, even more rare. we do tremendous damage without realizing it. all of us. but impermanence, disappointment and loss are some of our most important teachers. especially now.

]]> By: Chuntaro's Corner http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/comment-page-1/#comment-71 Chuntaro's Corner Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:10:00 +0000 http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/the-tragedy-of-maria-sabina/#comment-71 This post really activates the righteous side of me :). The spiritual tourism has been internalized by a lot of people, including natives as well. This is very sensitive especially in ceremonies involving Peyote or Ayahuasca. People try go to ceremony every week and forget of some of the original purposes of ingesting the medicine. It becomes very easy to abuse the medicine and the elders that run it. Most of the time people even forget to state their reason to go to ceremony and forget to follow protocol. This means that people with all kinds of issues and in all kinds of conditions and with all kids of diseases show up to ceremony and expect to get healed. This is tricky and abusive towards the elders, they cannot help anyone who doesn’t request the healing in the proper way and that is being honest. The not so nice part is that the elder then literally pays the consequences of those who fail to ask for help and take a whole bunch of medicine and energy away. One can fool an elder, one can fool oneself, but if one has respect and believes in indigenous ways then one must be present that one can not fool that which is mysterious and alive. <br/><br/>I recently witnessed the frustration of one of my uncles that was having a hard time in the middle of a meeting with someone that was requesting help, but would not estate what kind of problems he was facing. If the person is not willing to surrender their control and be open about their sickness no ceremonial leader can help. Also lets not forget how people that think that the ceremony and the medicine just would heal their emotional, relationship, psychological issues etc. without any work form their part are not being honest with themselves and are just looking for an excuse to not get better. There are a lot of people that go to all kinds of ceremonies and get all kinds of “telepathic messages, healings and visions” but have never tried professional therapy because this involves being honest and talking about your baggage with another human being.<br/><br/>It is also very common to have families become “holly” and feud over who is to carry the medicine of dad, mom, grandpa etc. and fail to understand that the medicine was the result of the hard work, sensitivity, ceremonial mileage, spiritual connection and way of life of the deceased one and not for them to have or try to duplicate. If they want to be like them well, then they need to start to work and maybe one day they can be good versions of themselves and honor their dead relatives that way. This post really activates the righteous side of me :). The spiritual tourism has been internalized by a lot of people, including natives as well. This is very sensitive especially in ceremonies involving Peyote or Ayahuasca. People try go to ceremony every week and forget of some of the original purposes of ingesting the medicine. It becomes very easy to abuse the medicine and the elders that run it. Most of the time people even forget to state their reason to go to ceremony and forget to follow protocol. This means that people with all kinds of issues and in all kinds of conditions and with all kids of diseases show up to ceremony and expect to get healed. This is tricky and abusive towards the elders, they cannot help anyone who doesn’t request the healing in the proper way and that is being honest. The not so nice part is that the elder then literally pays the consequences of those who fail to ask for help and take a whole bunch of medicine and energy away. One can fool an elder, one can fool oneself, but if one has respect and believes in indigenous ways then one must be present that one can not fool that which is mysterious and alive.

I recently witnessed the frustration of one of my uncles that was having a hard time in the middle of a meeting with someone that was requesting help, but would not estate what kind of problems he was facing. If the person is not willing to surrender their control and be open about their sickness no ceremonial leader can help. Also lets not forget how people that think that the ceremony and the medicine just would heal their emotional, relationship, psychological issues etc. without any work form their part are not being honest with themselves and are just looking for an excuse to not get better. There are a lot of people that go to all kinds of ceremonies and get all kinds of “telepathic messages, healings and visions” but have never tried professional therapy because this involves being honest and talking about your baggage with another human being.

It is also very common to have families become “holly” and feud over who is to carry the medicine of dad, mom, grandpa etc. and fail to understand that the medicine was the result of the hard work, sensitivity, ceremonial mileage, spiritual connection and way of life of the deceased one and not for them to have or try to duplicate. If they want to be like them well, then they need to start to work and maybe one day they can be good versions of themselves and honor their dead relatives that way.

]]> By: LG http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/comment-page-1/#comment-68 LG Sun, 17 Feb 2008 19:26:00 +0000 http://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/the-tragedy-of-maria-sabina/#comment-68 Yes, it's pretty well documented the international publicity had devastating effects on Maria Sabina´s practice, family, and environment. One only has to visit Huautla nowadays to witness. Somewhere I have xeroxes of a series of articles from a local Huatla magazine describing the intra-family feuding that broke over her succession. Not pretty. Sometimes it seems like western attention is the very kiss of death. Yes, it’s pretty well documented the international publicity had devastating effects on Maria Sabina´s practice, family, and environment. One only has to visit Huautla nowadays to witness. Somewhere I have xeroxes of a series of articles from a local Huatla magazine describing the intra-family feuding that broke over her succession. Not pretty. Sometimes it seems like western attention is the very kiss of death.

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